Im so glad you took it in the 🤯 direction! That’s where I LIVE and I never get enough chances to talk about it.
A couple writers I’ve encountered (serious meditators like Ken Wilber, Culadasa and Daniel Ingram) are adamant that it is possible to have a persistent personal experience of Satori in this lifetime for literally everyone. These instructors claim that we can all train up our minds enough to—ironically—REST in a felt sense of that awakening you point out is always present.
What do you think about this?
I’m starting to believe that it actually IS in the cards for me, though I’ve had no trustworthy experience of it whatsoever. And I know not everyone gets there and some people seem totally certain they won’t for many many more incarnations…
I sometimes wonder whether those 3 above teach techniques that are perfect for incarnations at a very specific stage of awakening. Perhaps it’s a matter of karma. Do we have different levels of confidence that result in different attitudes to maintaining or quitting practice—or selecting a practice style that has unreliable results—because of nature and nurture, cause and effect, trauma and baggage?
Maybe I took it in too woo a direction.
Without the need for the metaphysical ideas about reincarnation, we can still ask the same question: some meditation instructors insist everyone who meditates effectively will wake up—does that simply mean that the only people who are attracted to meditate using those “effective” techniques are the people disposed to experience awakening for whatever other causal-chain reasons? Is it just survivorship bias? The ones who stick around are the ones it works for?
I’m suspicious of claims to a “persistent personal experience of satori” because everything changes, including our personal experience. Sometimes, everything feels just right. Other times, it feels as though everything is falling apart.
That said, continual meditation practice seems connected to handling changes in our personal experience better. In my own case, I don’t attach as much to times when everything is going well and I don’t dwell in self-pity when things are challenging. Ups and downs are still present, but movement between the two is more fluid than it used to be.
Finally, the tradition in which I practice says that practice and awakening are the same. There’s no ladder to climb; everything happens right here on the ground. That seems quite different from these “someday you’ll wake up” approaches, no?
Im so glad you took it in the 🤯 direction! That’s where I LIVE and I never get enough chances to talk about it.
A couple writers I’ve encountered (serious meditators like Ken Wilber, Culadasa and Daniel Ingram) are adamant that it is possible to have a persistent personal experience of Satori in this lifetime for literally everyone. These instructors claim that we can all train up our minds enough to—ironically—REST in a felt sense of that awakening you point out is always present.
What do you think about this?
I’m starting to believe that it actually IS in the cards for me, though I’ve had no trustworthy experience of it whatsoever. And I know not everyone gets there and some people seem totally certain they won’t for many many more incarnations…
I sometimes wonder whether those 3 above teach techniques that are perfect for incarnations at a very specific stage of awakening. Perhaps it’s a matter of karma. Do we have different levels of confidence that result in different attitudes to maintaining or quitting practice—or selecting a practice style that has unreliable results—because of nature and nurture, cause and effect, trauma and baggage?
Maybe I took it in too woo a direction.
Without the need for the metaphysical ideas about reincarnation, we can still ask the same question: some meditation instructors insist everyone who meditates effectively will wake up—does that simply mean that the only people who are attracted to meditate using those “effective” techniques are the people disposed to experience awakening for whatever other causal-chain reasons? Is it just survivorship bias? The ones who stick around are the ones it works for?
Thank you for the comment, Geoffe!
I’m suspicious of claims to a “persistent personal experience of satori” because everything changes, including our personal experience. Sometimes, everything feels just right. Other times, it feels as though everything is falling apart.
That said, continual meditation practice seems connected to handling changes in our personal experience better. In my own case, I don’t attach as much to times when everything is going well and I don’t dwell in self-pity when things are challenging. Ups and downs are still present, but movement between the two is more fluid than it used to be.
Finally, the tradition in which I practice says that practice and awakening are the same. There’s no ladder to climb; everything happens right here on the ground. That seems quite different from these “someday you’ll wake up” approaches, no?